XX，刚在听学区预算危机

[yoyo6713]

I was not saying not to take care of them, I meant money could be spent in more productive ways.
Why do we want to spend so much on them for almost no result? Why not use the money on them later to help them on something else?

老牛想最大的result就是美国人民敢生。没有国家包底要是生了残疾儿童咋办。

学龄时期学区支出还是小头。那些需要照顾一辈子的才是大头。

说到底，他们都是生而美国公民。

Why? because in a lot of cases it is a almost helpless situation and it is very hard to draw the line (as where/when to stop). btw, I used to go help out an organization called abilis in greenwich, CT so I have first hand experiences.

[fortyNiner]

Maybe my following example is not appropriate, but it helps to make my point clear.
Why do we want to spend $1million to teach a monkey how to do math? He's not going to be good enough at it to help him find a job anyway. Why not give the $1million to his owner to be spent on taking care of him?

I was not saying not to take care of them, I meant money could be spent in more productive ways.
Why do we want to spend so much on them for almost no result? Why not use the money on them later to help them on something else?

Why? because in a lot of cases it is a almost helpless situation and it is very hard to draw the line (as where/when to stop). btw, I used to go help out an organization called abilis in greenwich, CT so I have first hand experiences.

[牛河梁]

美国是法治国家。法律有可能不合理。但美国各级政府，各组织，及各民众不能违法。唯一解决不合理的办法是修改法律。

是否productive也仁者见仁。举例说，注定读不上买买提计算机的是不是都算残疾人或猩猩。反正以后是不是都注定会被AI淘汰。现在让他们上学是否浪费资源。

大家有信心社会在法律的框架下运作很重要。就像允许Porn言论自由及持枪。虽然社会也在付出代价。

你可能没说的一点是，Special Need儿童可能“不平等”地享受了比“正常”儿童更多的资源。

但这也算一种矫枉过正。像AA一样。是对Special Need父母的一种心理补偿。表示他们没有做错事情。其他准父母无需担心生出残疾儿童。

I was not saying not to take care of them, I meant money could be spent in more productive ways.
Why do we want to spend so much on them for almost no result? Why not use the money on them later to help them on something else?

老牛想最大的result就是美国人民敢生。没有国家包底要是生了残疾儿童咋办。

学龄时期学区支出还是小头。那些需要照顾一辈子的才是大头。

说到底，他们都是生而美国公民。

[fortyNiner]

-Special Need儿童可能“不平等”地享受了比“正常”儿童更多的资源。
I did not mean that.
What I meant is, since you weigh only 150 pounds, your parent should not spend so much money on training you to be a football player, because no matter how good you might potentially be, one collision with a 300-pound opponent, your career is dead. The money should be spent on some other ways that there will be results.

美国是法治国家。法律有可能不合理。但美国各级政府，各组织，及各民众不能违法。唯一解决不合理的办法是修改法律。

是否productive也仁者见仁。举例说，注定读不上买买提计算机的是不是都算残疾人或猩猩。反正以后是不是都注定会被AI淘汰。现在让他们上学是否浪费资源。

大家有信心社会在法律的框架下运作很重要。就像允许Porn言论自由及持枪。虽然社会也在付出代价。

你可能没说的一点是，Special Need儿童可能“不平等”地享受了比“正常”儿童更多的资源。

但这也算一种矫枉过正。像AA一样。是对Special Need父母的一种心理补偿。表示他们没有做错事情。其他准父母无需担心生出残疾儿童。

I was not saying not to take care of them, I meant money could be spent in more productive ways.
Why do we want to spend so much on them for almost no result? Why not use the money on them later to help them on something else?

[fortyNiner]

--特殊教育就是希望把这些孩子教育成能达到社会接纳的最低标准。
They should be in special ed schools, not regular schools.

-Special Need儿童可能“不平等”地享受了比“正常”儿童更多的资源。
I did not mean that.
What I meant is, since you weigh only 150 pounds, your parent should not spend so much money on training you to be a football player, because no matter how good you might potentially be, one collision with a 300-pound opponent, your career is dead. The money should be spent on some other ways that there will be results.

还是那句话，你可能没有充分了解什么叫特殊教育。
特殊教育就是希望把这些孩子教育成能达到社会接纳的最低标准。
如果孩子能自行在公立学校达到社会接纳的最低标准的话，特殊教育是不会介入的。
校区都有独立的机构来评审。

话说，那个所谓的gifted program，也是特殊教育啊。不过是给智商超过正常的小孩而已。

[牛河梁]

SpEd进正常学校只是满足和同龄人的social需要。SpEd的教学内容及目标和“正常”儿童不一样。

其实，即使“正常”儿童之间哪怕在一个年级，教学内容也可能不同。举例说，据说同样高中毕业数学可以差7个年级。有一些能完成大学（AP）基础数学课程。有一些代数II都没过。那些代数II都没过的“正常”儿童算不算浪费资源呢。

--特殊教育就是希望把这些孩子教育成能达到社会接纳的最低标准。
They should be in special ed schools, not regular schools.

还是那句话，你可能没有充分了解什么叫特殊教育。
特殊教育就是希望把这些孩子教育成能达到社会接纳的最低标准。
如果孩子能自行在公立学校达到社会接纳的最低标准的话，特殊教育是不会介入的。
校区都有独立的机构来评审。

话说，那个所谓的gifted program，也是特殊教育啊。不过是给智商超过正常的小孩而已。

[fortyNiner]

But Algebra meets most people's need in life. So it is not a waste.
The need for them to have social interaction with regular kids? That might be the big reason why they are in regular schools.

SpEd进正常学校只是满足和同龄人的social需要。SpEd的教学内容及目标和“正常”儿童不一样。

其实，即使“正常”儿童之间哪怕在一个年级，教学内容也可能不同。举例说，据说同样高中毕业数学可以差7个年级。有一些能完成大学（AP）基础数学课程。有一些代数II都没过。那些代数II都没过的“正常”儿童算不算浪费资源呢。

--特殊教育就是希望把这些孩子教育成能达到社会接纳的最低标准。
They should be in special ed schools, not regular schools.

[fortyNiner]

Right, Algebra 2 is actually pretty high for more than half of Americans. I bet less than half of Americans have taken Algebra 2.

SpEd进正常学校只是满足和同龄人的social需要。SpEd的教学内容及目标和“正常”儿童不一样。

其实，即使“正常”儿童之间哪怕在一个年级，教学内容也可能不同。举例说，据说同样高中毕业数学可以差7个年级。有一些能完成大学（AP）基础数学课程。有一些代数II都没过。那些代数II都没过的“正常”儿童算不算浪费资源呢。

代数二？
你把世界想的太美好。
有些小孩，代数一，几何，代数2统统不用上，一直学四则运算学到高中毕业。

我还认识一个这样的小孩，雄心勃勃要到我们学校学EE，他还是学校教工家属（他爷爷做过学校的行政人员），交很少学费就行的。他就一年一年的选大学给弱智儿童开的代数1，学了三遍也过不了。他非常纳闷，说，我在中学的时候，数学学的很好啊。。。

[yoyo6713]

Maybe my following example is not appropriate, but it helps to make my point clear.
Why do we want to spend $1million to teach a monkey how to do math? He's not going to be good enough at it to help him find a job anyway. Why not give the $1million to his owner to be spent on taking care of him?

Why? because in a lot of cases it is a almost helpless situation and it is very hard to draw the line (as where/when to stop). btw, I used to go help out an organization called abilis in greenwich, CT so I have first hand experiences.

I am confused. Wasn't you complaining about too much had been spent on special eds yet you are proposing $1MM allocated for each kid? Greenwich,CT spends about 27K per kid per year and I believe that includes special eds. No where near what your narrative was implying.

Two comments:
a. Life is not just about finding jobs.
b. money doesn't solve everything.

Some of the kids I have encountered can't even take care of themselves. As I said it is hard to put a hard figure on what and how much someone is needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to think the same way you think, coming from similar background as you were. Nowadays as long as someone reviews the budget I am good and a board of education always has an annual special ed budget anyway. Let them work out what each kid needs.

P.S. glad you used that example, showcasing your bluntness. I give you credit htat you at least realized someone might be offended (not me though).

[fortyNiner]

You took my numbers too literally.
I was not proposing a $1-million budget. I simply meant if you want to spend $1 million on educating a special ed student, I think it might be better to simply give that $1 million to him/her so that the family can take care of him/her.

Just one comment. For some, it is a luxury to make the following two comments:
a. Life is not just about finding jobs.
b. money doesn't solve everything.

Maybe my following example is not appropriate, but it helps to make my point clear.
Why do we want to spend $1million to teach a monkey how to do math? He's not going to be good enough at it to help him find a job anyway. Why not give the $1million to his owner to be spent on taking care of him?

I am confused. Wasn't you complaining about too much had been spent on special eds yet you are proposing $1MM allocated for each kid? Greenwich,CT spends about 27K per kid per year and I believe that includes special eds. No where near what your narrative was implying.

Two comments:
a. Life is not just about finding jobs.
b. money doesn't solve everything.

Some of the kids I have encountered can't even take care of themselves. As I said it is hard to put a hard figure on what and how much someone is needed. Don't get me wrong, I used to think the same way you think, coming from similar background as you were. Nowadays as long as someone reviews the budget I am good and a board of education always has an annual special ed budget anyway. Let them work out what each kid needs.

P.S. glad you used that example, showcasing your bluntness. I give you credit htat you at least realized someone might be offended (not me though).